Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Ideas, techniques, problems and issues associated with keeping Leaf Cutting Ants in Captivity
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zat
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Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by zat » Wed May 30, 2018 2:30 pm

Hello. As I explained in my presentation topic, a friend gave me a colony of Atta Cephalotes. I spend some time studying it and I built was I imagined as a perfect starting place. I did my best and still, I missed something.
Here are the descriptions and the questions:

1) Before the stable environment
• I got the colony with a queen, 3 leaf cutter, a dozen gardener and I think 4 ants that shred the leaves for the gardener (yes, with no fungus because the conditions were bad on his setup and it died)
• I added 1cm² of fungus from Antstore.de, which they all ate (...)
• I gave organic apple for them to feed, which was appreciated

2) After the stable environment
• The environment is composed of :
o a big plastic box cleaned with organic white vinegar and well ventilated afterwards
o a sole of Gedeo plaster (with resin, used for all my anthills for years) at the bottom (it went 1hour in the oven at 90°C beforehand) to absorbed the water excess
o 1cm of "granules beige" from antstore (it was boiled several minutes beforehand) to increase the surface of evaporation, thus achieving a very good moisture content
o a circular glass plate at the center, on top of the gravel (it also went on the oven)
o the colony disposed on the glass plate
o a plastic dome with an opening of 2cm diameter on top of the glass plate (vinegar as well)
o A device to display humidity and temperature inside the big plastic box
o littles holes on the big plastic box (lid, sides)
o blackberry leaves, rose leaves, raspberry leaves on the gravel
• I added 3 piece of 1cm² of fungus from Antstore (expensive so I took 3 vials...)
• I noticed the glass plate was a problem because the water from the humidity would condensate and slip on it. The ants were not happy with that so I created a PLA flat disc filled with plaster.
• Since the installation (2 weeks), absolutely nothing happened... Even the cut leaves are still intact, green stiff as I have just cut them. The fungus is not growing, not shrinking. The ants are not touching the leaves. No mold, no deaths, no eggs. The humidity is 99%, temperature 25°C, stable.
• I give a very thin slice of organic apple regularly
• The fungus was eventually covered with mold (white with filament) and rejected
• The biggest ants and some of the tiny one died suddenly
• The queen made eggs

3) Questions & remarks
• What is wrong with the installation?
• Could the light be a factor for this regression? I read the fungus does not like UV and I put it on the corner of the room, but it is not fully protected from light.
• Would you have any piece of advice for me?
• Would someone have any fungus to give/sell/whatever?
• What could I give to them in order to provide proteins?

Thanks a lot for the time you took reading me, I am quite worried the queen would be dead soon…
And have a nice day :)

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Andyj
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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by Andyj » Wed May 30, 2018 6:39 pm

How are you heating the box ? is there a heat mat directly under the box, The mat shouldn't come into direct contact with the fungus or it could be cooking it. Your stats look ok where the Thermometer is, but whats the temp directly where the fungus is? it doesn't look like the Thermometer has a probe so you maybe getting the wrong temp.

It can be possible that the nest area is too wet. If water remains on surfaces or drips from above then the fungus will decline. Is there any ventilation on the dome ?

You may want to try giving Privet as this seems to be the favourite leaf for Atta's.

I don't think light would pose a problem but it's worth keeping it out of bright sunshine which would cause over heating.

So your first priority is to get some fungus, without it the ants probably have no inclination to do anything, meanwhile you could give them some cut grapes as this is considered an alpha food.

Good luck, challenging times ahead...

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by Acromyrmexbob » Wed May 30, 2018 8:39 pm

You should get in touch with Thibaud Atta on facebook. He is near Paris and has a large Atta colony. Mention me when you contact him. He will send you some fungus possibly?

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by zat » Thu May 31, 2018 12:02 pm

Andyj wrote:How are you heating the box ? Whats the temp directly where the fungus is?

If water remains on surfaces or drips from above then the fungus will decline. Is there any ventilation on the dome ?

You may want to try giving Privet as this seems to be the favourite leaf for Atta's.

So your first priority is to get some fungus, without it the ants probably have no inclination to do anything, meanwhile you could give them some cut grapes as this is considered an alpha food.

Good luck, challenging times ahead...
I am heating the box with a ceramic lamp above it. I put a sensor directly into the dome once and it measured the same humidity (99%) as the one on the box and there was a difference of -1°C. I took care of the dripping water by carefully choosing the dome (the water pours on the walls into the plaster beneath the gravels). And I changed the glass where they were by a plaster disc where the water is absorbed. No "rain" from the dome also.
The dome has two opposite holes of 1cm diameter (like entrances) and that's it.
I agree about the fungus priority... maybe a better ground too (has the pH a role to play ? definitely need some peat). I am trying to find something for that.
Thank you very much ! I hope the challenge will end well...
Acromyrmexbob wrote:You should get in touch with Thibaud Atta on facebook. He is near Paris and has a large Atta colony. Mention me when you contact him. He will send you some fungus possibly?
Thanks, I'll do that rightaway :)

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by Andyj » Thu May 31, 2018 7:29 pm

Looks like everything is good so you just need the fungus. I have no idea how long a colony would live with out it.

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by zat » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:08 pm

Andyj wrote:Looks like everything is good so you just need the fungus. I have no idea how long a colony would live with out it.
I hope so... I thought the same before and it did not work at all. But fingers crossed. I do not know how long, they got the calories with the apple but no proteins at all...

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by zat » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:12 am

GLS postponed the delivery from friday to the next working day... today. But the queen died yesterday evening. So end of the line for me !

Thanks for your help anyway...

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by Andyj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:25 am

Sorry to hear that but you gave it your best. Don't let this discourage you from trying again.

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by zat » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Andyj wrote:Sorry to hear that but you gave it your best. Don't let this discourage you from trying again.
Thank you Andyj. I hope I did... Too bad I did not have the chance to try the substrate !

I think "trying again" will be difficult because of the cost of the colony ! Plus the fact I did not find the proper way to take care about the ants...

But anyway, the community is very nice and I will stick around lurking this forum :)

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Re: Troubles with Atta Cephalotes

Post by Jackie62 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am

Sorry you lost your queen, please don't give up with keeping a colony, they are wonderful animals. Please let us know when you get another. We have all lost colonies here and learn so much from it, it is a continuous learning experience!

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