Richards Rant

Post your builds, private or commercial set ups. This is where we will document the creation of housing or the planning and construction of projects from scratch. This differs from the Journal Section because this section does not concentrate on the Ants or the other animals that are being kept, this section focuses on the progress of the build.
RichardP
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Richards Rant

Post by RichardP » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:46 pm

Speaking as an accountant, I find it interesting that a few of you on this forum have a commercial interest in our fungus-farming, insect, friends.

I can't help but think that a good use of this forum might be to start to think about how we (you) can develop a proposition that is going to appeal to a wider populous.

There is already a massive community in the UK devoted to reptiles and fish etc.

I know from my own experience of establishing a home based atta colony that information is difficult to come by and there are few really coherent "off the shelf" solutions.

Without a doubt product design and development is critical and a precursor to any other activity (so I might be jumping the gun a bit) but I can't help but think that if leaf cutter ant keeping was "marketed" in the right way, it could really take off in the UK.

And if that were to happen, you chaps could be well placed to take advantage.

I think people would look for:

1. Clean and crisp in its design and appearance
2. Incorporated lighting
3. Bomb proof in it's climate control
4. Expandable
5. High quality
6. Something I haven't thought of

We've got so much experience in the group. Andrew in particular, with his experience in commercial set ups, would be a great ally.

If you could design the "perfect" product then I think it should be pretty easy to market it through reptile/arachnid/fish publications and boom... I'm sure people would go for it. As long as the proposition was coherent, complete and fit for purpose.

From my own experience I've had a handful of people see my set up and suggest that they would like something similar. Particularly people with children. But I can't tell them.. it costs £x and you can buy it from y website..

Sorry, this isn't really relevant to the thread so please feel free to move it elsewhere.. I'd be really interested in people's views though..

Was that a "rant" ?

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Re: Deansie's Acromyrmex cupboard build

Post by Deansie26 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:03 pm

I like your rant Richard, I'll move it to the general discussion section tomorrow when I get the time as want to clean this thread up. It's a good post!
Your right with what you say, a real plug and play would be great. Unless your an addict I think there is a ceiling with what people are willing to pay for ants/set up.
I really like the Led strip lights I used for example but I paid £35 quid for them lol, they are quality but just showing how price can escalate quick as I'm sure your well aware. I'm sure there are cheaper light options obviously.
Think most would seek Andrew's advice, especially when sh@#t hits the fan. He's been in this game longer than a lot off our members have been alive, not that your old or anything Andrew :roll:

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Re: Deansie's Acromyrmex cupboard build

Post by Acromyrmexbob » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:03 pm

deansie26 wrote:He's been in this game longer than a lot off our members have been alive, not that your old or anything Andrew :roll:
My goldfish has been in the game longer that a lot of our members.
Interesting 'rant', Richard. Spoken like a true accountant. I have been involved in the Pet trade for around 30 years now. I have 2 companies and employ around 60 people. Making money out of animals ethically is one of the most challenging things to do. Building a business focusing on my passion for ants has been the most difficult thing of all. Since 1991 I have sold colonies of Leaf Cutters. I have always said that Leaf Cutters are the great undiscovered hobby waiting to explode. My logic for this is easy. People will spend a hundred pounds on a spider and tank with equipment and then sit for 3 months waiting to see it move. Boring. They will spend £200 on a snake and tank and equipment and the only time it does anything interesting is when they feed it once a decade or take it out and play with it. Pointless pets with no lasting appeal imo. But ants are entirely different. 24 hours a day, activity and action. So this market is a market place that does not know yet that Leaf Cutting Ants are so amazing. They have the interest, a wish to keep something exotic and unusual, they just dont know what it is yet. My business plan is to firstly supply colonies into the market place by having resellers with stock. That Phase 1 and its been completed, both in Europe and in UK. Next Phase, which I am on now, is to generate the interest so these resellers sell their stock and reorder. I have an article being published shortly in a leading Reptile magazine and publicity about Leaf Cutting Ants ongoing. A product which is off the shelf and easy to use is needed and is not available in a form which ticks all of the boxes. My own version is made of glass so cannot be shipped. I would love someone to come up with an idea like you say so I can push it. I have a sales and marketing department which I could turn on to this and sell to exotic pet shops if the product was available. So someone needs to take up Richards challenge and make it happen!

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Re: Deansie's Acromyrmex cupboard build

Post by RichardP » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:37 am

Acromyrmexbob wrote:People will spend a hundred pounds on a spider and tank with equipment and then sit for 3 months waiting to see it move. Boring. They will spend £200 on a snake and tank and equipment and the only time it does anything interesting is when they feed it once a decade or take it out and play with it. Pointless pets with no lasting appeal imo. But ants are entirely different. 24 hours a day, activity and action. So this market is a market place that does not know yet that Leaf Cutting Ants are so amazing. They have the interest, a wish to keep something exotic and unusual, they just dont know what it is yet.
My thoughts exactly...

I think the solution should be based on glass. It's cheap (to buy but can be sold at a high margin), and it looks great, is durable and proven. And Andrew has production capability.

However, what did occur to me after I posted the above is that this is a public forum and we should be very careful about how we(you) protect our(your) intellectual property.

So this forum may not be the best place to describe a solution. Maybe if anyone is interested enough we should create some other more private environment to discuss it? I don't know what that would be to be honest, just a thought.

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Deansie26
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Re: Richards Rant

Post by Deansie26 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:18 pm

Glass doesn't ship well though as Andrew said, interesting though. Not sure about a secret section? who gets access? Who decides who's worthy? :twisted:

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Re: Richards Rant

Post by RichardP » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:25 pm

Thanks for moving this Jamie.

Antstore ship glass ok... at least to me anyways.

Who gets access...? Anyone on this forum that we know I suppose... Anyone interested in helping to design, build, market, sell or otherwise be involved in trying to create a proposition that will ignite the imagination and open the wallets of the the UK's "unusual" pet owners.

But I don't really know how this might work in practice... I was just keen that people's intellectual property remained their own :) If anyone is going to make any money out of this it should be us (you) :)

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Re: Richards Rant

Post by Leafcutter » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:26 pm

RichardP wrote:Thanks for moving this Jamie.

Antstore ship glass ok... at least to me anyways.

Who gets access...? Anyone on this forum that we know I suppose... Anyone interested in helping to design, build, market, sell or otherwise be involved in trying to create a proposition that will ignite the imagination and open the wallets of the the UK's "unusual" pet owners.

But I don't really know how this might work in practice... I was just keen that people's intellectual property remained their own :) If anyone is going to make any money out of this it should be us (you) :)

Yes Antstore's shipping is great. Glass always arrives in one piece, even the larger sizes that say shipping at own risk. A specialist glass courier could be used in the UK.

Atta cephalotes (2019)
Camponotus detritus (2018)
Camponotus maculatus (2018)

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Re: Richards Rant

Post by Deansie26 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:32 pm

Yes your right so I suppose there must be specialist couriers that could be used. See what Andrew thinks about new section. I'm not sure if it would work, might alienate new members.

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Re: Richards Rant

Post by Acromyrmexbob » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:48 pm

My own opinion is that the design of this should be public domain. Rather than hide the design and try to create a money making enterprise, would it not be great to design an enclosure, issue plans, send them to all of the aquarium makers and pet centres so they are freely available and then generate a far greater boost to the hobby. I know Sean and Jon at Antkit are keen to sell their own design and they should but they are also ant sellers. If as many people kept Leaf Cutters as did Tarantulas then everyone would make more money. Having said that I can manufacture anything in glass but would be reluctant to take on a new product myself. Maybe the current sellers here would want to have a design that can be made either by them or by a local company to them. I know Antstore make their own glass stuff, this is the way to go for any company serious enough about getting big.
For what its worth, and to kick off the process, this is the glass based design I have been making and selling for around 20 years.

Image


5cm water in the base, two islands, one nest the other feeding, branch in between, moat around top so there are two moats to prevent escape. Heater in water for humid heat and temperature. When colony outgrows the 20cmx20cmx20cm cube nest tank then the whole tank is filled with soil and the top moat becomes the escape prevention. The ants can then be fed either by a table placed above the nest or at a distant locality. The standard size is 750mm long, 450mm high and 275mm wide which I chose because this tank could potentially accommodate an Acromyrmex for its entire life. My standard commercial nest tank is the same design but I normally try to build these 750mm long, 750,, wide and 1200mm high, a beast of a tank. These big ones start at £500 with a heating well in the centre.
The small ones I sell to the trade at about £45.00 and retail for around double that. Like I say just a few ideas to get the party started.

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Re: Richards Rant

Post by RichardP » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:59 pm

Wow, thanks Andrew, what a great insight. There's a lot to think about there and some really interesting angles I hadn't considered.

I think that's a really good start point though. Really interesting, thanks for sharing.

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